Chuck, “Citizenism”, and the Proposition Nation

Chuck talks more about his disagreement with white nationalists, and I get a better idea of his philosophical stance.

Of whom the American nation properly consists is a matter of contention. VDare.com takes the position that it is properly composed of the descendents of British Protestants, and possibly German Protestants as well, but not later arriving white ethnic groups such as the Irish, Italian, Poles and other eastern and southern European ethnics, Jews, or Catholics, and that the arrival of these people created the corrupt populism manipulated by the elite for their own ends enshrined in the New Deal. The wave of Third World immigration that started 50 years ago is of course even worse, and the issue they focus on. The idea that the American nation is based on a set of political ideas and principles is derided as the “proposition nation”- only northern European Protestants can be real Americans.

The problem with this is that the primary rivalry in America has always been between groups of British Protestants, those of the North and those of the South. Other groups have been merely pawns in this game. HBD guru and VDare veteran Steve Sailer takes a more sanguine and politically acceptable view, which approaches the issue of immigration from the standpoint of “citizenism”, that the immigration policy of the US should explicitly benefit those who are citizens now, and should not be conducted for the benefit of immigrants. “Citizenism” isnt’ the same as the proposition nation but Chuck seems to conflate the two. As he says-

“If we’re talking about the process or the system, this country was not founded on an aesthetic principle.  It was founded on processional principles – I assume we’re all familiar with the founding documents.  If the rule of law prevails and if the system is sound, it doesn’t really matter which pieces go where.  Taylor et al have an eye on the preservation of certain aspects of the culture or the heritage.  They want a certain outcome, and they aren’t really concerned with whether or not the system operates fairly and consistently.”

The first problem with this, as Chuck should be willing to admit, is that there is no “process” or “rule of law”. The elites do what they want and invent a legal principle to justify it, and it has been this way from the beginning. The second problem is that while whites don’t particularly prefer their own kind, because we have been conditioned not to for generations, all other groups do- blacks and Jews especially, Hispanics to a lesser extent.

A nation or political entity is a necessary, but not sufficient condition. Just making something white won’t eliminate all or even most problems, but a system where non-whites have a lot of power they can use against whites is miserable for whites and ultimately doomed.

The idea that differing racial groups can deal with each other honestly and fairly in the framework of an objective set of rules has been tried and failed. Chuck lives in a state, Kansas, that is 78% white, 11% Hispanic and only 6% black. He reports dealing with bad black behavior on the job, but doesn’t seem to understand how it permeates the culture, society and politics. I think he is comfortable with what he believes and will remain a “color-blind” constitutionalist conservative. Or he may come to appreciate that NAMs have a corrosive effect that the current system not only does not correct but actually encourages.

Does Jared Taylor care whether the system operates “fairly and consistently”? I don’t know, but it certainly doesn’t operate fairly and consistently now. It operates to keep elite whites in power by selectively benefiting those who support them, NAMs and a large portion of white women. Do I want a system that selectively benefits me? I do indeed! I plead guilty and make no apologies for it, and I don’t accept the arguments or moral stature of a system arrayed against me.

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About thrasymachus33308

I like fast cars, fast women and southern-fried rock. I have an ongoing beef with George Orwell. I take my name from a character in Plato's "Republic" who was exasperated with the kind of turgid BS that passed for deep thought and political discourse in that time and place, just as I am today. The character, whose name means "fierce fighter" was based on a real person but nobody knows for sure what his actual political beliefs were. I take my pseudonym from a character in an Adam Sandler song who was a obnoxious jerk who pissed off everybody.
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7 Responses to Chuck, “Citizenism”, and the Proposition Nation

  1. Ryu says:

    Doesn’t Chuck live in Wisconsin, near Madison? I remember his hassle with the negros from Chicago/Milwaukee.

    I don’t know about Chuckie. It won’t be me that turns him. He’s gotten stuck in racial realism. It takes a big kick to get out and move forward. There’s also that goddamn libertarianism, with all its pretension and “objectivity.”

    • formerly no name says:

      Libertarianism (as in Rand; Rothbard, Lewrockwell.com) is a form of insanity that barely exists outside the US. It’s gaining a little international traction (through the RP campaign) by being reinvented as pacifism combined with expressive individualism/ lifestyle anarchy.

      • Matthew says:

        IIRC, Hoppe attributes to von Mises the view that American libertarians are crazy and have completely missed the point.

  2. formerly no name says:

    This is probably the best short and simple treatment of the basic issues of the National Question in the US that I’ve seen. But , if I recall correctly, Brimelow (aka VDARE:COM) is just making a “core identity” argument about British Protestants. Thus, for example, I don’t think he would deny that all the “Polish-Americans” (so ethnically distinct a couple of generations ago) I see today, who are so assimilated as to be indistinguishable from WASPs, are now part of the “club.”.

  3. rjp says:

    Libertarianism is like socialism/communism and makes assumptions of man. Problem is these assumptions will never stand. I wouldn’t put Rand in the same category though because she accepts that greed is good and essential, but it is similar in a way as it is Utopian.

  4. RS says:

    > selectively benefiting those who support them, NAMs and a large portion of white women. Do I want a system that selectively benefits me? I do indeed! I plead guilty and make no apologies for it, and I don’t accept the arguments or moral stature of a system arrayed against me.

    It might be worth adding that the system that benefits you would also be a thriving and superior human culture, whereas this one ain’t. That’s not to say that queers or White women have no value, or their peculiar perspectives no coherence and reality. But, to take an extreme example, so do Australian Aboriginals have those things, but Germany, say, or Japan are still far superior and their preservation a much higher good even on an objective perspective. If there were some civilization superior to Europe, I’m pretty sure I would be rather strongly compelled to admit that this is a good, as compared to the world at hand, where this superior civ does not exist.

    Actually, I like White women a lot, but the culture where they are somewhat more under the hegemony of White men is very much superior to this one. It’s not so much that I care about their obeying their husbands more, though this is pretty decorous and wise most of the time ; what’s problematic is their share of cultural influence, which is quite a bit too high ; it promotes a harmful level of softness. Therefore men have more natural rights, if they can sack up and take them, even though perspectivism is altogether true in its way. It’s true but not the whole truth.

    • RS says:

      > It’s not so much that I care about their obeying their husbands more, though this is pretty decorous and wise most of the time ; what’s problematic is their share of cultural influence

      I don’t really care about that per se, but the two might be linked

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